Post by Kitsune on Jan 19, 2015 8:54:43 GMT
Last I was aware, you guys were still deciding what to do and how to handle Monster Racial Hit Dice and Savage Progressions, but that was a few days ago. And, it seems someone else is putting together a high hit dice monster creature for their second character so I thought at least asking some questions for you guys to bounce back too might help. Feel free to take your time responding to this, f'course, just thought it might help collect your collective thoughts on the matter if it was given specific direction.
I've also included a few monster related questions, that I thought might affect some character concepts I or others may have.
1. Can we use savage progressions for high hit dice monster races that start above ECL 5? If so, is it dependent upon Moderator approval before use, and can we use homebrew/third party savage progressions that mirror their intended race at the same ECL (For example, the Gold Dragon savage progression on Kaldakaczil's application sheet, taken from Dragon Magazine)?
2. The idea of Racial Hit Dice being retrained for class levels was being bounced around. Is this still being thought about/allowed, and if so, how much of those Racial Hit Dice may be retrained, and can characters start with some of their Racial Hit Dice retrained? Finally, how would retraining Racial Hit Dice interact with abilities that are dependent on them (for example, some save DCs on Monster Abilities?).
3. For Savage Progressions and Monsters in general, can we count our Racial Hit Dice as class levels for level adjustment buy off, rather than the normal rules for Level Adjustment Buyoff and Racial Hit Dice? For example, a Gold Dragon is an ECL creature with 8 Hit Dice and 4 LA, and thus requires 12 class levels to buy off its first level adjustment (nine, here, thanks to the 'free' buyoff at character creation). This means a Wyrmling Gold Dragon would have to wait until ECL 24 (ECL 19) and spend 24,000 (19,000) experience to buy off its first level adjustment (and wait again until ECL 33 (25), 39 (28) and 42 to buy off level adjustment for just his wyrmling levels). If they could be counted, an Wyrmling could proceed to immediately buy off its first level adjustment at level 12, then again at 18, and finally 21, and a savage progression Gold Dragon would be able to buy off its level adjustment one at a time as it continues to level. Or, if Racial Hit dice are allowed to be retrained, will only retrained levels into class levels count, and non-retrained hit dice remain as not counting?
4. For creature's with the Alternate Form (or at least, Gold/Silver dragons version of the ability), rather than assuming the average scores of the form taken (in human's case, Str 10, Con 10, and Dex 10), would it be instead possible to just change ones racial bonuses to those attributes to the current's forms? For example, taking Kaldakaczil as an example, his base stats from point buy are Strength 16, Dexterity 12, and Constitution 14. Assuming he was a fully developed wrymling, his stats as a dragon would be Strength 22, Dexterity 12, and Constitution 18. However, as a human his stats would still be 10, 10, 10 despite his heroic scores (and also making it a chore to act kind of heroic as a human, when he won't even have the strength to use the Power Attack feat!) and, taking his favored form of a wolf, have the scores Str 13, Dex 15, Con 15. Instead, while taking a different form, could he instead just change his racial ability bonuses (losing his bonuses from being a dragon and gaining whatever that race has, keeping his 'base' scores). For example, as a human he would have Strength 16, Dexterity 12, Constitution 14, and thus be a capable fighter and heroic 'knight', and as a wolf have Strength 18, Dexterity 16, Con 18?
5. An odd ball one, but can Awakened Animals be utilized (both for player characters, or cohorts/followers)? Who wouldn't want to play an Awakened Dire Wolf, after all, or a kleptomaniac awakened weasel?
Personally, at least when it comes to (gold) dragons, I've played mostly with question number three, and it seemed to work out alright over all. Then again, I've played a straight dragon with all of the level adjustment stripped off (thus he was equal in racial hit dice to other's with class levels), and if anything was still a bit weak. After all, an 8 Hit Dice wyrmling is only CR 5 (CR 6 or 7 with player character ability scores) and everyone else was equal to a CR 8+. Moderator permission might be needed for individual cases, as not all monsters are created equally, but for true dragons I don't think it'll be an issue, and will hopefully allow them to keep up with more traditional player characters.
I've also included a few monster related questions, that I thought might affect some character concepts I or others may have.
1. Can we use savage progressions for high hit dice monster races that start above ECL 5? If so, is it dependent upon Moderator approval before use, and can we use homebrew/third party savage progressions that mirror their intended race at the same ECL (For example, the Gold Dragon savage progression on Kaldakaczil's application sheet, taken from Dragon Magazine)?
2. The idea of Racial Hit Dice being retrained for class levels was being bounced around. Is this still being thought about/allowed, and if so, how much of those Racial Hit Dice may be retrained, and can characters start with some of their Racial Hit Dice retrained? Finally, how would retraining Racial Hit Dice interact with abilities that are dependent on them (for example, some save DCs on Monster Abilities?).
3. For Savage Progressions and Monsters in general, can we count our Racial Hit Dice as class levels for level adjustment buy off, rather than the normal rules for Level Adjustment Buyoff and Racial Hit Dice? For example, a Gold Dragon is an ECL creature with 8 Hit Dice and 4 LA, and thus requires 12 class levels to buy off its first level adjustment (nine, here, thanks to the 'free' buyoff at character creation). This means a Wyrmling Gold Dragon would have to wait until ECL 24 (ECL 19) and spend 24,000 (19,000) experience to buy off its first level adjustment (and wait again until ECL 33 (25), 39 (28) and 42 to buy off level adjustment for just his wyrmling levels). If they could be counted, an Wyrmling could proceed to immediately buy off its first level adjustment at level 12, then again at 18, and finally 21, and a savage progression Gold Dragon would be able to buy off its level adjustment one at a time as it continues to level. Or, if Racial Hit dice are allowed to be retrained, will only retrained levels into class levels count, and non-retrained hit dice remain as not counting?
4. For creature's with the Alternate Form (or at least, Gold/Silver dragons version of the ability), rather than assuming the average scores of the form taken (in human's case, Str 10, Con 10, and Dex 10), would it be instead possible to just change ones racial bonuses to those attributes to the current's forms? For example, taking Kaldakaczil as an example, his base stats from point buy are Strength 16, Dexterity 12, and Constitution 14. Assuming he was a fully developed wrymling, his stats as a dragon would be Strength 22, Dexterity 12, and Constitution 18. However, as a human his stats would still be 10, 10, 10 despite his heroic scores (and also making it a chore to act kind of heroic as a human, when he won't even have the strength to use the Power Attack feat!) and, taking his favored form of a wolf, have the scores Str 13, Dex 15, Con 15. Instead, while taking a different form, could he instead just change his racial ability bonuses (losing his bonuses from being a dragon and gaining whatever that race has, keeping his 'base' scores). For example, as a human he would have Strength 16, Dexterity 12, Constitution 14, and thus be a capable fighter and heroic 'knight', and as a wolf have Strength 18, Dexterity 16, Con 18?
5. An odd ball one, but can Awakened Animals be utilized (both for player characters, or cohorts/followers)? Who wouldn't want to play an Awakened Dire Wolf, after all, or a kleptomaniac awakened weasel?
Personally, at least when it comes to (gold) dragons, I've played mostly with question number three, and it seemed to work out alright over all. Then again, I've played a straight dragon with all of the level adjustment stripped off (thus he was equal in racial hit dice to other's with class levels), and if anything was still a bit weak. After all, an 8 Hit Dice wyrmling is only CR 5 (CR 6 or 7 with player character ability scores) and everyone else was equal to a CR 8+. Moderator permission might be needed for individual cases, as not all monsters are created equally, but for true dragons I don't think it'll be an issue, and will hopefully allow them to keep up with more traditional player characters.