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Post by Kitsune on Jan 13, 2015 20:00:26 GMT
Didn't want to potentially steal the other guy's thread given he has his own questions there, so I'll start my own up (unless you do want to lump everything in there, then I suppose we can just delete this one and I can move my questions over there. o.o). Right then. I have a few questions on what can be used, and what not, for a character concept I've got in mind. To that end; - Flaws (Unearthed Arcana, SRD): Are Flaws, and for that matter, traits, from Unearthed Arcana allowed to be used, and would the rules regulating them be the same as they are written there?
- (Custom) Weapons Of Legacy: The character concept I have in mind would preferably use a pair of ancestral daggers as his weapons, tying into his back story and, well, over all appearance and theme. Given that sticking around with a pair of +1 daggers isn't exactly an effective option, and finding magical crafters that the character A) Trusts, and B) has the time to allow his main weapon be worked on for weeks at a time may get in the way of, well, adventuring, I was wondering if it would be possible to use Weapons of Legacy to both make his signature weapons tied to him and his backstory, be useful throughout his career, and very, very flavorful. If this is allowed, would you prefer each dagger be handled separately or somehow be lumped together for 'one' weapon? I'd also be open to any other options you might propose that should work as a solution either, although I do have a small lean towards WoL because of its potential for making something quite flavorful.
- I hope to take advantage of the Prestige Class Invisible Blade (Complete Warrior), which has a few issues, mainly with its feat prerequisites (in short, it and master thrower were originally the same class, then split into two, with the person making the change forgetting to change the feat prerequisites to something that now made sense for a melee dagger fighter). Would it be possible to change the feat prerequisites (Weapon Focus: Dagger, Far Shot, Point-Blank Shot) to something that would make more sense for the class? The author himself recommended Weapon Focus: Dagger, Weapon Finesse, and Two-Weapon Fighting on a forum post that I might be able to track down again, but any other recommendations you might make will probably work out better than what it was published with.
- Finally, would alternate class features and racial substitution levels work for Homebrew versions of the class they were originally apart of, specifically Grod The Giant's versions, if they retain the same abilities that are being traded?
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Post by Cendar on Jan 13, 2015 20:05:56 GMT
1) We're not using flaws. To quote Treantmonk, "If your DM allows you to take a flaw, take one. If he allows you to take 5, take 5. These are always worth it – and naive DM’s still think they are “well-balanced”." So we're not allowing them at all. Traits are OK, but don't abuse them.
2) Weapons of Legacy are in use. In your specific instance, unless Nine has an issue, I'd say treat them as one weapon, but the benefits are only active when they are wielded together.
3) Those feats aren't OP in any way, and they make sense for the class. I have no issue with it.
4) I'll let Nine answer this one - the homebrew classes are his baby.
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Post by Kitsune on Jan 13, 2015 20:14:10 GMT
Alright. I'll probably make two suggestions for the character's daggers then, one working as two separate daggers (although blending together a bit when it works well), and one that functions as one 'legacy' weapon. I assume it would mean that anything special, such as spell-like abilities or what not, only function while they're together, but things like weapon enhancements would work with both of them for the cost of one? (For example, Legacy Weapon ability that would make the weapon a +2 dagger would make both a +2 dagger for the same cost?). Hmm, I should have requested a different feat than weapon finesse, considering Grod's version of Rogue gets Intelligence to attack for free at level 3... Oh well, it still makes more sense than Far Shot at least.
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Post by Kitsune on Jan 13, 2015 20:28:29 GMT
Do'h, I forgot something I was going to ask about. Bloodlines! I know they're a bit complicated, but once again, I like a bit of the flavor of it. Would Bloodlines be allowed (specifically, a custom bloodline modeled after one of the standard ones from Unearthed Arcana), and would they function the same there or have any modifications? Its nothing too major, I can use a Template instead of a Bloodline for what I want, but I thought I'd see if it was an option.
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Post by Cendar on Jan 13, 2015 20:53:19 GMT
Re: WoLs - The idea would be that anything that comes from the legacy would only work while the weapons were together. Otherwise the cost is as though it were applied to two weapons. So if the +2 comes from the legacy, then it only applies while the two are together. If you want the +2 to apply when they are apart, it will cost the same as if it were applied to two weapons.
Re: Bloodlines - I'm hesitant to allow them. I'll let Nine make the final decision, but I'd rather have the template than the bloodline. It's a lot easier to handle, and probably more balanced (excepting template stacking, which is a no-no anyway).
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Post by Kitsune on Jan 13, 2015 21:05:24 GMT
I just liked the bloodline because they're quite easy to customize (swap a few things around) and you have a dramatically different feel to add to your character, which is a bit harder to do with Template.
But, if going with the template, I believe the character will start at level 3 then, since its a +2 template I'll probably be using, and the first level you can buy off a +2 LA is at six.
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Post by Cendar on Jan 13, 2015 21:07:36 GMT
I'll let Nine weigh in on this, but I don't think there would be an issue letting you buy off the first LA level at level 3 so you can somewhat keep up with the rest of the board. You'll probably have to hold off on the second one, but you shouldn't be really squishy at the start just because of a template.
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Post by Kitsune on Jan 13, 2015 21:22:14 GMT
Heh, I think I'll be squishy either way considering how WoL like to chew through your hit points as a cost. Especially if I go with having two separate but related ones, rather than one that counts as two. Fortunately, being squishy shouldn't hurt this character too much.
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Post by NineOfSpades on Jan 13, 2015 22:30:03 GMT
I am fine with a +2 Level adjustment being bought down to a +1 at level 3.
As far as the homebrew class fixes, if you want to use the officially published class substitutions, then I think that will be fine, so long as the class still actually has the feature (or an equivalent) to make the trade with, which is something you noted.
For everything else, Cendar's ruling sits fine with me.
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Post by Kitsune on Jan 15, 2015 3:00:59 GMT
So, a question that pertains to Gix (as well as the Revised Invisible Blade I'm sort of sketching up). What is the general moderator opinion to stacking an ability modifier multiple times towards something?
For example, in his current state, Gix can apply his dexterity modifier to damage three times (Once from Ranger's Combat Style, once from Shadow Blade, and once from Hit and Run Fighter), so I wanted to make sure if that was acceptable or not. Secondly, because I'm contemplating how to make Invisible Blade's Unfetted Defense ability work, considering Gord's rogue can get intelligence to Armor Class from Uncanny Defense.
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Post by Cendar on Jan 15, 2015 3:02:47 GMT
I think an ability modifier stacks only once. I'm pretty sure that's an official WotC ruling, actually.
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Post by Gaiyamato on Jan 15, 2015 3:04:57 GMT
Modifiers of different types stack, if the modifiers are of the same type you only apply the highest/best.
So if a character had applying to the same thing (say for example a skill check): +1 Insight Bonus +1 Luck Bonus +2 Insight Bonus +1 Racial Bonus
They would get +4 bonus, not +5.
That is the official WotC ruling on that.
Unless it says otherwise Ability modifiers are the same type, so do not stack.
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Post by Kitsune on Jan 15, 2015 3:08:25 GMT
I don't recall such a ruling off hand myself, but I'm willing to accept it if that's the ruling. So an ability could apply twice to something, but not three times? (Only stacking 'once') Or is it just the once?
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Post by Kitsune on Jan 15, 2015 3:15:14 GMT
Modifiers of different types stack, if the modifiers are of the same type you only apply the highest/best. So if a character had applying to the same thing (say for example a skill check): +1 Insight Bonus +1 Luck Bonus +2 Insight Bonus +1 Racial Bonus They would get +4 bonus, not +5. That is the official WotC ruling on that. Unless it says otherwise Ability modifiers are the same type, so do not stack. From what I recall, unless an ability says otherwise, its typeless. Typeless abilities do stack, so long as they come from different sources. For example, The Ranger's Combat Style dex to damage and Shadowblade's Dex to damage are typeless, and from different sources (a class feature and a feat), so they should stack, at least from what I know RAW. Hit and Run Fighter is the only one that has a typed bonus, giving its damage bonus as a competence bonus.
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Post by Cendar on Jan 15, 2015 3:33:31 GMT
My ruling would be that it doesn't stack, because it doesn't make sense to be able to apply something twice. But I'll wait to see what Nine and Xyn say before making it a definite ruling.
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Post by MilesTiden on Jan 15, 2015 3:43:48 GMT
The 'ability modifiers only apply once' rule only exists in Pathfinder, as untyped bonuses always stack in 3.5. If you want to rule otherwise, that makes sense, but I believe it works by RAW.
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Post by Kitsune on Jan 15, 2015 3:44:26 GMT
Alright, depending on the ruling I'll likely be changing Gix's class levels around then, but that shouldn't be too hard to change. As it stands, I think I might just make the Revised Invisible Blade I'm working on give Unfetted Defense a +1-5 AC bonus to AC while unarmored. Has the same mechanical effect as Unfetted Defense currently does, and should stack just fine with Uncanny Defense.
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Post by Gaiyamato on Jan 15, 2015 3:54:44 GMT
Modifiers of different types stack, if the modifiers are of the same type you only apply the highest/best. So if a character had applying to the same thing (say for example a skill check): +1 Insight Bonus +1 Luck Bonus +2 Insight Bonus +1 Racial Bonus They would get +4 bonus, not +5. That is the official WotC ruling on that. Unless it says otherwise Ability modifiers are the same type, so do not stack. From what I recall, unless an ability says otherwise, its typeless. Typeless abilities do stack, so long as they come from different sources. For example, The Ranger's Combat Style dex to damage and Shadowblade's Dex to damage are typeless, and from different sources (a class feature and a feat), so they should stack, at least from what I know RAW. Hit and Run Fighter is the only one that has a typed bonus, giving its damage bonus as a competence bonus. Typeless do stack. Fairly certain adding ability score as a bonus does not though as they are their own type. You could add say DEX+WIS to something, but not normally DEX+DEX+DEX etc.
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Post by NineOfSpades on Jan 15, 2015 4:03:27 GMT
I would agree that multiple bonuses from the same ability score should not stack when applied to the same roll, though ability bonuses from different ability scores can stack.
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Post by Kitsune on Jan 15, 2015 4:22:52 GMT
M'kay, I'll have to edit Gix around just a bit then to reflect that, but it shouldn't change too much about him. Definitely means the revised Invisible Blade I'm working on will have to have a flat bonus, to avoid the intelligence and intelligence stacking.
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