Post by Kitsune on Jan 24, 2015 16:06:47 GMT
I've been thinking about this feat in particular, and while it should probably go into Xyn's feat fixes, I thought since this was splitting off into a bit of a tangent with my own thoughts on the matter, I'll make a new post for it (if only so he doesn't have to deal with me muddling about in his thread anymore. )
I believe, currently, he has it so that when you take two-weapon defense, you gain improved two-weapon defense at BAB +6. So, currently, Two Weapon defense provides a +1 shield bonus to AC (scaling to +2 once you hit BAB +6), or +2/4 shield bonus whilst fighting defensively (which now synergizes nicely with combat expertise thanks to that change, which I like). However, I think that A) This feat is still not good enough to take, and B) Doesn't fix the issue of Greater Two-Weapon Fighting, which is now even weaker in comparison (+3 shield bonus over a +2, for a feat).
For starters, looking at other feat selections that a Two-Weapon Fighter could rely upon if he wanted to improve his AC, one of which comes from the same book as Improved Two-Weapon Defense.
1: Dodge, now rolled into Mobility, grants a +1 dodge bonus to Armor Class against a specific target. Dodge bonuses stack with dodge bonuses, so it's effectively a free one AC boost against anyone, and so long as the player is facing down one opponent in melee at a time, does so. This is equal to Two-Weapon defense until BAB +6, or less if the user fights defensively. But it also grants the mobility bonus (which is situational, but could be useful), but most importantly, now opens up feat chains such as Spring Attack, and a few other feat lines that build from mobility. Two-Weapon Defense does no such thing, and worst, won't scale with any other shield options the user might use.
2: Improved Buckler Defense. I believe this is hands down the better option over Two-Weapon Defense, even with the current 'fix'. For the feat alone, you can fight with two-weapon fighting and a buckler without losing the benefits of your buckler, providing a +1 shield bonus. More importantly, however, is that you can make a +5 buckler for 25,000gp, totaling a +6 shield bonus for a cost of one feat, and some item investment. This feat and a +1 buckler (1,000gp), equals the benefit of a Ring of Force Shield, although the Ring has a few options. This is on top of it opening up another item slot the user can take advantage of for miscellaneous weapon/armor enhancements as well. Pretty much, the only situation where Improved Buckler Defense isn't the king of two-weapon fighter AC purposes is when the user can't wield a shield due to some stipulation (monk armor bonus, for example).
3: The Shield spell, a 20 UMD check, a dip, magic item, or whatever else, will grant a +4 shield bonus to AC, and you don't even have to fight defensively for it.
4: Ring of Force Shielding, for 8,500gp, doesn't require a feat (although it takes up a ring slot, but given that you can combine it with another magic item for a total of 12,750gp, that's only so much of a limitation) and gives a +2 shield bonus to AC, already equaling this feat at BAB +6, although not being able to be boosted further by fighting defensively. Furthermore, because its explicitly a small sized wall of force, you could try arguing that the shield bonus from this ring applies against ethereal attacks and touch attacks (not RAW, but it DOES make sense, no?).
5: Animated Shields. Because enough gold thrown at a problem always fixes it. Costs enhancement bonuses, but its Improved Buckler Defense without the feat, and you can grab a heavy animated shield to make up for some of that.
As you can see, even with the improvement, Two-Weapon Defense doesn't seem useful to take in comparison to other options, two of which gives equivalent or better benefits and don't require a feat slot, while one that does takes a modest investment (which, to be fair, might be hard for TWFers to do considering they have to spend money on two weapons already) and equals Greater Two-Weapon Defense whilst fighting defensively, and still has other benefits.
I propose two solutions myself. First, improving Two-Weapon Defense a tad bit more, and second, perhaps introducing interesting feat selection choices for afterwards, to reward a sort of hard to hit Two-Weapon Fighter. F'course, these are just ideas, even if rejected, I hope that I've at least pointed out that two-weapon defence is still weak, and unlike the other combinations, didn't at least cut down on feat taxes because there is nothing that I know of that requires Two-Weapon Defense.
Two-Weapon Defense [Fighter]
Requirements: Dexterity 15, Two-Weapon Fighting.
Benefit: When wielding a Double Weapon or two weapons (not including double weapons or unarmed strikes), you may designate one opponent during your action and gain a +1 shield bonus to your AC against that opponent. See the Two-Weapon Fighting special attack. When you are fighting defensively or using the total defense action, this bonus improves to +2.
Special: When your Base Attack Bonus reaches +6, your Shield Bonus improves by one to +2 Shield Bonus (and by two whilst fighting defensively or taking a total defense action, for a +4 shield bonus), and again at BAB +11 (+3/+6) and BAB +16 (+4/+8).
Improved Two-Weapon Defense [Fighter]
Requirements: Two-Weapon Defense, BAB +6.
Benefit: The Shield Bonus from your Two-Weapon Defense feat now also applies against Touch attacks and on rolls to defend against disarm and sunder attempts against your weapons, but only against your chosen opponent.
Greater Two-Weapon Defense [Fighter]
Requirements: Wis 15 or a method of negating flank attack bonuses against you (Improved Uncanny Dodge, for example), BAB +11.
Benefit: Your reaction and timing with your weapons on the defensive are unparalleled. Your shield bonus from Two-Weapon Defense now applies against all opponents who attack you, rather than just one opponent you select on your turn (this also extends the benefits of Improved Two-Weapon Fighting to all opponents as well). Additionally, once per round as an immediate action, if an attack would have hit your AC, you may make an attack roll with one of your weapons against your opponent's attack value (taking any penalties for two-weapon fighting you might have normally made, despite only making the one roll). You use the result of your attack roll in place of your Armor Class for that attack, even if it is worse than your normal Armor Class.
Barrier of Blades [Fighter]
Requirements: Improved Two-Weapon Defense
Benefit: Those who attempt to strike you risk a wound for their trouble. When wielding a Double Weapon or Two Weapons (not including double weapons or unarmed strikes) and an opponent in reach of your weapons misses you with a melee attack, you deal damage as if you had struck him with one of your weapons (your choice of which, or which end) without having to roll to hit. You do not get the benefit of feats such as Power Attack which trade attack accuracy for damage, nor the benefits of precision damage such as Sneak Attack. You can only take advantage of this feat a number of times per round equal to your Dexterity modifier (minimum once per round).
Blade Entrapment [Skill Trick]
Requirements: Barrier of Blades, Improved Disarm, Sleight of Hand 8 Ranks.
Benefit: Instead of dealing damage when a foe misses you, you may instead attempt a free disarm roll against your opponent's weapon rather than deal damage with your Barrier of Blades feat. If you succeed, you may choose to have the weapon drop in any square adjacent to you, rather than in your opponent's square. Additionally, you are not at risk for your own weapon being disarmed if you fail the attempt.
I believe, currently, he has it so that when you take two-weapon defense, you gain improved two-weapon defense at BAB +6. So, currently, Two Weapon defense provides a +1 shield bonus to AC (scaling to +2 once you hit BAB +6), or +2/4 shield bonus whilst fighting defensively (which now synergizes nicely with combat expertise thanks to that change, which I like). However, I think that A) This feat is still not good enough to take, and B) Doesn't fix the issue of Greater Two-Weapon Fighting, which is now even weaker in comparison (+3 shield bonus over a +2, for a feat).
For starters, looking at other feat selections that a Two-Weapon Fighter could rely upon if he wanted to improve his AC, one of which comes from the same book as Improved Two-Weapon Defense.
1: Dodge, now rolled into Mobility, grants a +1 dodge bonus to Armor Class against a specific target. Dodge bonuses stack with dodge bonuses, so it's effectively a free one AC boost against anyone, and so long as the player is facing down one opponent in melee at a time, does so. This is equal to Two-Weapon defense until BAB +6, or less if the user fights defensively. But it also grants the mobility bonus (which is situational, but could be useful), but most importantly, now opens up feat chains such as Spring Attack, and a few other feat lines that build from mobility. Two-Weapon Defense does no such thing, and worst, won't scale with any other shield options the user might use.
2: Improved Buckler Defense. I believe this is hands down the better option over Two-Weapon Defense, even with the current 'fix'. For the feat alone, you can fight with two-weapon fighting and a buckler without losing the benefits of your buckler, providing a +1 shield bonus. More importantly, however, is that you can make a +5 buckler for 25,000gp, totaling a +6 shield bonus for a cost of one feat, and some item investment. This feat and a +1 buckler (1,000gp), equals the benefit of a Ring of Force Shield, although the Ring has a few options. This is on top of it opening up another item slot the user can take advantage of for miscellaneous weapon/armor enhancements as well. Pretty much, the only situation where Improved Buckler Defense isn't the king of two-weapon fighter AC purposes is when the user can't wield a shield due to some stipulation (monk armor bonus, for example).
3: The Shield spell, a 20 UMD check, a dip, magic item, or whatever else, will grant a +4 shield bonus to AC, and you don't even have to fight defensively for it.
4: Ring of Force Shielding, for 8,500gp, doesn't require a feat (although it takes up a ring slot, but given that you can combine it with another magic item for a total of 12,750gp, that's only so much of a limitation) and gives a +2 shield bonus to AC, already equaling this feat at BAB +6, although not being able to be boosted further by fighting defensively. Furthermore, because its explicitly a small sized wall of force, you could try arguing that the shield bonus from this ring applies against ethereal attacks and touch attacks (not RAW, but it DOES make sense, no?).
5: Animated Shields. Because enough gold thrown at a problem always fixes it. Costs enhancement bonuses, but its Improved Buckler Defense without the feat, and you can grab a heavy animated shield to make up for some of that.
As you can see, even with the improvement, Two-Weapon Defense doesn't seem useful to take in comparison to other options, two of which gives equivalent or better benefits and don't require a feat slot, while one that does takes a modest investment (which, to be fair, might be hard for TWFers to do considering they have to spend money on two weapons already) and equals Greater Two-Weapon Defense whilst fighting defensively, and still has other benefits.
I propose two solutions myself. First, improving Two-Weapon Defense a tad bit more, and second, perhaps introducing interesting feat selection choices for afterwards, to reward a sort of hard to hit Two-Weapon Fighter. F'course, these are just ideas, even if rejected, I hope that I've at least pointed out that two-weapon defence is still weak, and unlike the other combinations, didn't at least cut down on feat taxes because there is nothing that I know of that requires Two-Weapon Defense.
Two-Weapon Defense [Fighter]
Requirements: Dexterity 15, Two-Weapon Fighting.
Benefit: When wielding a Double Weapon or two weapons (not including double weapons or unarmed strikes), you may designate one opponent during your action and gain a +1 shield bonus to your AC against that opponent. See the Two-Weapon Fighting special attack. When you are fighting defensively or using the total defense action, this bonus improves to +2.
Special: When your Base Attack Bonus reaches +6, your Shield Bonus improves by one to +2 Shield Bonus (and by two whilst fighting defensively or taking a total defense action, for a +4 shield bonus), and again at BAB +11 (+3/+6) and BAB +16 (+4/+8).
Improved Two-Weapon Defense [Fighter]
Requirements: Two-Weapon Defense, BAB +6.
Benefit: The Shield Bonus from your Two-Weapon Defense feat now also applies against Touch attacks and on rolls to defend against disarm and sunder attempts against your weapons, but only against your chosen opponent.
Greater Two-Weapon Defense [Fighter]
Requirements: Wis 15 or a method of negating flank attack bonuses against you (Improved Uncanny Dodge, for example), BAB +11.
Benefit: Your reaction and timing with your weapons on the defensive are unparalleled. Your shield bonus from Two-Weapon Defense now applies against all opponents who attack you, rather than just one opponent you select on your turn (this also extends the benefits of Improved Two-Weapon Fighting to all opponents as well). Additionally, once per round as an immediate action, if an attack would have hit your AC, you may make an attack roll with one of your weapons against your opponent's attack value (taking any penalties for two-weapon fighting you might have normally made, despite only making the one roll). You use the result of your attack roll in place of your Armor Class for that attack, even if it is worse than your normal Armor Class.
Barrier of Blades [Fighter]
Requirements: Improved Two-Weapon Defense
Benefit: Those who attempt to strike you risk a wound for their trouble. When wielding a Double Weapon or Two Weapons (not including double weapons or unarmed strikes) and an opponent in reach of your weapons misses you with a melee attack, you deal damage as if you had struck him with one of your weapons (your choice of which, or which end) without having to roll to hit. You do not get the benefit of feats such as Power Attack which trade attack accuracy for damage, nor the benefits of precision damage such as Sneak Attack. You can only take advantage of this feat a number of times per round equal to your Dexterity modifier (minimum once per round).
Blade Entrapment [Skill Trick]
Requirements: Barrier of Blades, Improved Disarm, Sleight of Hand 8 Ranks.
Benefit: Instead of dealing damage when a foe misses you, you may instead attempt a free disarm roll against your opponent's weapon rather than deal damage with your Barrier of Blades feat. If you succeed, you may choose to have the weapon drop in any square adjacent to you, rather than in your opponent's square. Additionally, you are not at risk for your own weapon being disarmed if you fail the attempt.